29 November 2012

The Vatican on Gaza: "Israel is a Baby-Killer”

This is another proof that for some people (too many people, if you ask me) the incessant attempts to kill Jewish babies don't count:

The Catholic Church high official equated Israel’s operation in Gaza against terror groups with the New Testament story of Herod’s slaughter of Jewish babies in his effort to kill Jesus.

Ravasi, who is one of the most popular Catholic cardinals and the director of the Church’s policy on culture, called Israelis baby-killers in a shameless form of anti-Semitism which subtly accuses the Jewish State of trying to murder the new Jesus, symbolized by the Palestinian people.
No comments.

See the original article (in French) here.

Hat tip: Philosemite.

Update: See Shaun's comment  on the case, it presents the whole quite differently.

See also Shaun's detailed post on the matter, which could be now considered closed under a "lost in interpretation" clause.


Shaun Downey said...

Not the sort of rhetoric to help progress a peaceful settlement.. if one is even achievable which I hope there is.

KatieNorcross said...

The Vatican (and Christians in general) now believe that Jesus was a "Palestinian" who was brutally murdered by the Jews. That is why they want to finish the job their boy Adolf started.

Never trust a Catholic.

Shaun Downey said...

I was brought up a catholic and went to catholic primary and secondary schools.I have plenty of issues with the church and parted company with a long time ago but you know what? I never once heard a priest advocating a Final Solution and there was a distinct lack of anti-semitism on the curriculum.....

Wipe the foam from your mouth

KatieNorcross said...

Growing up all the Catholic children in my class would call us Jewish children "Christ Killers". They would attack us after school and made our lives a living hell.

They learned this hatred at 2 places: Home and Church. Since they all had this hatred, it must be ingrained in the brains of these little bastards at birth while being baptized.

No foam from my mouth, but personal experience is the best teacher.

Shaun Downey said...

Well that's your personal experience but the sweeping statement made in your original comment are plain and utter bullshit.

Brian Goldfarb said...

Katie, you're being a bit harsh here. My late father, who went through the war in East London as an Air Raid Warden (and we kids never did hear the horror stories he must have witnessed) used to insist that "the only good German is a dead German". Even allowing for him (and my mother) losing family in the Holocaust, my sister and I felt that this was a bit strong. Then one day, he let slip that (something my sister and I already knew) there had been active anti-Nazi Germans, many of whom had paid with their lives.

We pounced on him and he had to admit, shamefaced, that perhaps his attitude, however understandable, was a bit(? a bit?) over the top.

So, I'm with Shaun on this one: there are most certainly nasty Catholics (for those with a historical bent, we need go no further back than Father Coughlin in the US), but that's no reason to tar all of them with the same brush.

After all, numerous Catholics (as well as Christians of other denominations and people with none) risked (and sometimes paid with) their lives to shelter Jews in Europe between 1939 and 1945. Those we know about became "Righteous Gentiles" at Yad Vashem.

GideonSwort said...

This is about the officialdom of the Vatican practicing and encouraging Jew Hatred through the same age old tried and tested methodology. At it's base, "sweeping statements", aka Blood Libel (pronounced with a York accent). The fact that this is still practiced by officials in the Vatican centuries on, can produce emotional comments such as Katie's. As Katie's life experience is by no means unique, the "utter Bollocks" retort may over the top. A simple Bollocks would have sufficed.

Shaun Downey said...

Okay I retract the utter. I still consider the original statement to be bollocks

SnoopyTheGoon said...

Seconded. When a hateful statement like this comes from a senior member of the Catholic officialdom, it's no wonder that a significant part of worshipers is poisoned by same. Not all of them by all means.

Dick Stanley said...

This is like blaming Methodists and Presbyterians for the current anti-Israel bias and divestment actions of their Leftist leaders. But, then, living mainly in the South I never knew a lot of Catholics in public school. If I had I'm sure I would have been more likely to hear the Christ-killer b.s. since it was (then if not now) an historically prominent part of their church's repertoire.

Dick Stanley said...

I can't imagine any sort of peaceful settlement with these clowns unless they all renounce Islam, which is not likely.

Dick Stanley said...

Why hit on Father Couglin? There must be some juicy Brit ones who get less publicity these days but were just as noxious.

Shaun Downey said...

Thinking of rough conetemporaries he could have said Archibald Maule Ramsay but would reference have been meaningful?

Brian Goldfarb said...

Thank you Shaun. As I recall, there was a Captain Maule Ramsay, M.P. (a Conservative) imprisoned during WW2 under Regulation 18B because he was a Nazi sympathiser.

Anyway, Dick, why complain because I show a decent sense of US history (I needed to to my Masters) and I was, after all, responding to Katie.

GideonSwort said...

Yes Shaun, Katie's statement is indeed sweeping bollocks..

Ravasi's statement is classic antisemitism, and incites hatred. In American lingo - "a hate crime" by a high ranking Catholic official. You would presumably agree then, that this is a little more severe than unhelpful "rhetoric", and reflects badly on the highest level of Catholic Officialdom?

Shaun Downey said...

That's the fellow. After he was released from Brixton towards the end of the war his only contribution in the Commons was to push for the reimposition of Edward I's edict expelling Jews fro England

Shaun Downey said...

Gideon some of my own views on the Catholic Church would probably make the 70's version of Ian Paisley blench.

But I digress. There are two things to consider here Ravasi used a very ad analogy which led himself open to justifiable criticism

But Meotti is a liar who has twisted Ravasi's words if the Zenit article is an accurate account

The original French article which concerns avasi is commenting on the third book of Ratzinger's trilogy on the life of Christ this one dealing with the birth and infancy of Christ. Ravasi is not commenting on the situation in Gaza as Meotti states in his first paragraph.

Firstly Meotti twists what Ravasi is quoted as saying. Reading the originalZenit article (slowly I must admit) the ninth and tenth paragraphs say

"He stated (or specified) that the childhood gospels are not just an instructional work but performative. )not sure what he means here by using performatif but in this sense it is defined as performing an action by stating) It is (emphatically) indeed a book that involves the reader because it bears witness to a story that is always current.

To illustrate he gave the example of the "scream of the others during the slaughter of the innocents" (This is a reference to Matthew 2:18 In Rama was there a voice heard,lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not.)

which is a universal perpetual scream. it is a universal scream which resounds even today.Children are killed in Gaza and the screams of the mothers is the scream continued....

So what is Ravasi saying? According to the Vatican it's this

In reference to the article by Giulio Meotti under the title “The Vatican on Gaza: Israel is a Baby-Killer”, Cardinal Gianfranco Ravasi categorically denies having said or implied this assertion.

In presenting Pope Benedict’s most recent book, Cardinal Gianfranco Ravasi, President of the Pontifical Council for Culture, did comment on the following phrase “In our own day, the mothers’ cry to God continues unabated” (The Infancy Narratives, p.113). In doing so, he elaborated with humanitarian concern and in light of the news of recent days: “This cry of the mothers who have lost dramatically their children has returned again and again throughout history, and has done so again in these days in Gaza.”

My conclusion? Ravasi is an idiot. Meotti is a liar.

SnoopyTheGoon said...

Well, I would say that it looks less incendiary when deciphered.

Shaun Downey said...

Your welcome Snoopy. 14 years in catholic state schools including seven at a Jesuit secondary school has some benefits! I wouldn't have looked much further if it had not been for Katie's idiotic rant and more importantly Gideon's far ore reasonable reply

To be honest Snoopy I would jump on the bastard if I truly thought it was as clear cut as Meotti made it to be. However, looking at some of Meotti's Op-Eds he comes over as a hysterical prick who creates tenuous if not utterly false connections to support his assertions.

Like Kevin Myers Israel needs jerks like Meotti like it needs tertiary syphilis.

GideonSwort said...

Thanks for the thorough research and comment.

So, we are left with dogmatic drivel that has direct and singular reference to Mothers in Gaza. Not a mention of Mothers in Sderot.

This type of verbal partisan vomit will and does lead to "mistrust", based on a rolling record spanning centuries.

I'd rather not call a man of "God" an Idiot, seeing as this particular priest is well versed in the art of "Pilpul", while the Vatican's response has a distinct aroma of Rose scented purification.

Has this god fearing man a past record of "inadvisable sermons"?

Shaun Downey said...

Once again look at the context of the comment. A book launch on the Pope's book on the infancy of Jesus which mentions the slaughter of the innocents. I don't quite know what the Pope said about the event as I wasn't able to find a copy in a local bookshop today but it looks like he did refer to it.

Again it's a bad analogy to use but if it were so heinous why was it not picked up by Ynet the Jerusalem Post or other papers and news outlets. I've had a look for press coverage elsewhere and the only sites to mention it linked directly or indirectly to Meotti's article.

I've had a look at some of Meotti's op eds and many of them appear to be hysterical rants. He was given the shove by ynet because he is also a plagiarist.

As for Ravasi he doesn't seem to have a history of arseholery that Meotti does. One of his key tasks is leading the Vatican's debate with secularists and those of other faiths. He ay have put his foot in his mouth but I can't find any glaring examples.