16 January 2012

De nada, Ilse

A Dutch lady spends some time in Israel, while pregnant. She goes through the usual rigmarole of prenatal tests, is diagnosed with some virus which is subsequently taken care of. Eventually, she gives birth to a healthy baby and here it starts: she pens an article The chosen people have to be perfect. It's her unique way to thank the Israeli medical establishment, I guess. With statements like this:

To be pregnant in Israel is comparable to a military operation. Countless echos and blood tests should produce the perfect baby, nothing can be left to the luck of the draw. The state demands healthy babies and a lot of them too.
Or like this:
What makes things even more emotionally charged is the Israeli demand to produce many children.
Pity I didn't know about this demand when I came over to Israel so many years ago. I would have recruited a battalion of female volunteers and organized a breeding farm. With self in an easily predictable role, of course. Too late, unfortunately...

Read more in CiF Watch.

One point the author missed: the Arab, Bedouin and all other minorities in Israel are subject to the same "countless" Zionist tests. Which means... but let's not make the issue too difficult for a Dutch Christian daily, the virulently anti-Zionist lady who authored the article and their grateful readers.

If you wish, you could address Ms Van Heusden at her Facebook page. Here is her thoughtful image:


So, don't thank us anymore, Ilse. Really.

Cross-posted on Yourish.com

19 comments:

Incognito73 said...

what an ingrate.  was going to leave a comment on the trouw article but couldn't figure out where to comment.

SnoopyTheGoon said...

Facebook, Facebook!

Lisa said...

Ilse is a very good friend of mine. She's one of the most thoughtful, intelligent people I know. She and her husband lived in Israel for several years; they sent their daughter to a Hebrew-only kindergarten and lived in Tel Aviv rather than in the foreigners' ghetto of Jerusalem's Abu Tor neighbourhood. Her opinion is legitimate and I don't understand why you are quoting CiF monitor, which is a web-site of the far-right Caroline Glick types.

SnoopyTheGoon said...

Please, Lisa, instead of blanket defense, could you comment on the quotes above and the title of the article? I would be glad to continue this discussion, but on specific quotes. There is more in that piece, but let's start with these.

She may be a great person but she came through as a hateful biddy in this article.

Lisa said...

The article was translated from Dutch. Do you read Dutch? I don't. I suggest you contact Ilse directly and ask if she feels she was quoted accurately. I am sure she will be happy to clarify.

Lisa said...

The term 'biddy' is a sexist, unacceptable term. The term 'hateful' should be reserved for reactionaries like CiF writers who label a journalist anti-Semitic because she dares to criticize an aspect of Israeli society. It most certainly is true that Israel is a society that encourages having children. Maternity wards are the biggest money makers in the Israeli public health care system and I personally know three Jewish women who made aliyah expressly for the purpose of having unlimited, state-subsidized IVF treatments. A journalist does not choose the headline for her article, by the way.

SnoopyTheGoon said...

I said " she came through as a hateful biddy", not that she is one. As for translation: I am opening another comment.

SnoopyTheGoon said...

OK, Lisa, now about translation, although you must know that this is a poor last resort. I am using Google. The title:

"The chosen people to be perfect" and yes, I know that sometimes it's not the author who chooses the title... The first quote as translated by Google:"Being pregnant in Israel is almost a military operation. Countless ultrasounds and blood tests should provide the perfect baby, nothing should be left to chance. The state requires healthy babies, and too much."The second quote:"Children should not only be perfect: what makes things even more loaded, the Israeli demand for many children. The state promotes having children, including a large family."Now could you, please, show me where the state of I. promotes large families? Or is it the Chief Rabbi, possibly, and Ilse has mixed the two?
Then we have the misuse of the Benizri quote that was referring to illegal immigration...All in all, I don't have to read Dutch more than that...And re the article I refer to: while re-published by CiF Watch (who, in my opinion, are doing a sterling job on The Guardian), it's written by a person who is not a member of that team. In any case, the habit of bashing the source is not a good replacement for disproving the facts.

SnoopyTheGoon said...

Poor job? Google confirmed the precision of the article translation - where is it a poor job? I left the Google's result untouched on purpose, so you wouldn't have any wiggle room, and you are calling it a poor job? Strange that.

I shall answer the other points in separate portions due to the comment system being somewhat difficult today.

SnoopyTheGoon said...

"Israel is a child-centered state. That is why it subsidizes expensive
fertility treatment and that is why maternity wards are the biggest
money makers for hospitals - eg Ichilov's luxurious Baby Lis maternity
'hotel.' Israel is also the only country that provides extensive genetic
testing to women who wish to become pregnant, even before they do get
pregnant, and then more genetic tests on the fetus. There are Israeli
sociologists who have written about this Israeli obsession with
'perfect' children; Ilse is not exactly breaking new ground here. "

I happen to belong to a medical family, with my late father an obstetrician. For me it was always an open secret that the number of hereditary diseases Jew of both Ashkenazi and Sephardi extraction are carrying is very high. This is a valid and vital concern both to the prospective parents,to the medical establishments and to the state that has to bear the huge costs of taking care of unfortunate results of oversight.

Making it look like an obsession is a clear sign of ignorance or worse. Ilse didn't leave room to any doubt in validity of her analysis. Unfortunately, and using terms like "chosen" and " the Israeli demand for many children" - by the way, you ignored my previous question - show me where this "demand" appears.

SnoopyTheGoon said...

"Israel is a child-centered state. That is why it subsidizes expensive
fertility treatment and that is why maternity wards are the biggest
money makers for hospitals - eg Ichilov's luxurious Baby Lis maternity
'hotel.' Israel is also the only country that provides extensive genetic
testing to women who wish to become pregnant, even before they do get
pregnant, and then more genetic tests on the fetus. There are Israeli
sociologists who have written about this Israeli obsession with
'perfect' children; Ilse is not exactly breaking new ground here. "

I happen to belong to a medical family, with my late father an obstetrician. For me it was always an open secret that the number of hereditary diseases Jew of both Ashkenazi and Sephardi extraction are carrying is very high. This is a valid and vital concern both to the prospective parents,to the medical establishments and to the state that has to bear the huge costs of taking care of unfortunate results of oversight.

Making it look like an obsession is a clear sign of ignorance or worse. Ilse didn't leave room to any doubt in validity of her analysis. Unfortunately, and using terms like "chosen" and " the Israeli demand for many children" - by the way, you ignored my previous question - show me where this "demand" appears.

SnoopyTheGoon said...

"Israel is a child-centered state. That is why it subsidizes expensive
fertility treatment and that is why maternity wards are the biggest
money makers for hospitals - eg Ichilov's luxurious Baby Lis maternity
'hotel.' Israel is also the only country that provides extensive genetic
testing to women who wish to become pregnant, even before they do get
pregnant, and then more genetic tests on the fetus. There are Israeli
sociologists who have written about this Israeli obsession with
'perfect' children; Ilse is not exactly breaking new ground here. "

I happen to belong to a medical family, with my late father an obstetrician. For me it was always an open secret that the number of hereditary diseases Jew of both Ashkenazi and Sephardi extraction are carrying is very high. This is a valid and vital concern both to the prospective parents,to the medical establishments and to the state that has to bear the huge costs of taking care of unfortunate results of oversight.

SnoopyTheGoon said...

Making it look like an obsession is a clear sign of ignorance or worse.
Ilse didn't leave room to any doubt in validity of her analysis.
Unfortunately, and using terms like "chosen" and " the Israeli demand
for many children" - by the way, you ignored my previous question - show
me where this "demand" appears.

SnoopyTheGoon said...

"She is comparing the Israeli system with the Dutch system, for her Dutch
readers. She prefers the Dutch system. You and CiF have extrapolated
that her article is anti-Semitic and anti-Israel, which is ridiculous
and - frankly - paranoid. "

Where did I use the term "anti-Semitic"? Please, Lisa. Heat of an argument is fine, but let's stick to the facts...

SnoopyTheGoon said...

"As for her use of Benizri's quote - no matter what the context, it is disgusting."

Indeed. True. Now two remarks:

1. Isn't taking a quote out of context disgusting?

2. Where do I defend Benizri, for crying out loud?

SnoopyTheGoon said...

And once more: CiF re-posted an article from another source, please check it. 

KatieNorcross said...

Of course Israel wants the perfect child born.  Actually all Jewish children are perfect!  Just ask their grandmothers.

She should be grateful of the prenatal treatment Israeli doctors gave her.  Perhaps she would be happier with the prenatal treatment given to women in Muslim nations.  Nations with very high infant mortality rates.

Stupid Dutch woman.

SnoopyTheGoon said...

Not sure about stupid, but certainly bitching too much.

Ratne Pelle said...

Hi Lisa,
Several people I know wrote to Trouw to ask for clarification but Trouw didn't bother to respond at all (I guess they send comments directed to Ilse to her address as well). So maybe you could ask her if she could respond seriously to some of the criticism? I wrote a Dutch citicism of the article which you can see here: http://www.israel-palestina.info/actueel/2012/01/07/schandaal-prenatale-zorg-in-israel-is-prima-geregeld/ where Ilses comments are welcome.